This is an old post during the tsunami tragedy in South East Asia this past winter. I had originally posted it on Desi Media Bitch on Monday, December 27, 2004, but since that was a while ago, I thought I would bring the dead to life again. This piece was a bit extreme and got quite a few comments (positive as well as negative), but without taking a risk and touching taboo close up, we will never know what makes society tick...enjoy. The comments are on their way too.
Recent updates show some 10,000+ people have been confirmed to have died with the recent tragedy in South East Asia. Over 1,000,000 people have been displaced and will probably have to wait for a very long time before any salvage may be given to them. I never understood the gravity of the situation until today when I was watching the news and saw some of the damage done in different parts of Indonesia, India, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Sumatra and the other affected countries. Forget the number of people who have been affected, just for a moment, think about the size of this catastrophy that hit from under the water, a shift in the tectonic plates which we had no warning of, destroyed billions of dollars worth in more than half a dozen countries. Where is the faith that people seek at times like this? The faith that gives them direction, focus, strength, guidance and a feeling of security that they are being watched over.
To go back a bit, I would like to provide some insight on a personal approach to religion and faith just for a moment so people have a better understanding of where I am coming from. I have lived in a Muslim social environment for all my life, except the few years I was in the states. I have always followed the Islamic way of life (with moderation of course) as best I knew how. I prayed on fridays with all my friends, fasted during Ramzan, respected the sayings of the holy text and so forth. Recently, about a few months ago, I had a vision. It was more of a day dream, but calling it a vision gives it more veracity. I realized that I claim to be a Muslim, but while indulging in alcohol, marijuana, sex and all kinds of other sinful things that are forbidden. I was the Islamic Student Association's President for about 2 years, I organized and took part in numerous events that helped bring many different diverse organizations together to celebrate the ability for us to share a meal together, to sit together, to live in a common environment, without any unreasonable restriction. I became ashamed of myself when I had my vision, I realized that I was pretending to be someone, live a certain way while maintaining another kind of life on the side. Split between the two I decided that I would follow one and then when I felt I could genuinely dedicate myself, I would revert to the one I believe I should allow to guide me.
Sorry, I got momentarily sidetracked watching CNN. 21,900 people believed to be dead from tsunami damage. I want to know, where is God now. Not for me, but for all the people who have died, who were ready to give their lives to protect their loved ones from any harm by dedicating themselves to their God's word. Whether Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Jainist, Athiest, Agnostic or what have you, everyone inclusive suffered and not by choice I am sure. This is my blasphemy of the day. I don't believe it is fair for me to be dishonest to myself by pretending to have faith in something I don't really have faith in. Truthfully, I don't feel comfortable giving my faith to a being that I don't believe truly exists. I feel more comfortable holding myself responsible for things I do, whether right or wrong. The God I left has left those who had nothing except their faith. If one was to take a ballpark guess, I would say most of the affected were already low income or suffering from poverty. When you are so poor and you leave your faith in an entity that you strive to believe in without even being able to see it/him/her, you are more devout to your faith than the mullahs who profit from other peoples faith and greviences and faith in them to deliver God's message.
I am just upset about the wasteful death that these people have endured, unwillingly, undeservingly and most of all unfortunately lost in vain. There was no greater cause here, no sacrifice to save a bigger cause, definately no honor being defended, just a change in mother nature's mood. If I have stepped on someone's toes with this anti-religious stuff, well I do beg your pardon, but this is my belief and I don't believe in being a half assed pretentious fake follower of a faith that has not yet grabbed me in the middle of the night with a face full of sweat and fear, making me tremble and driving me to ask God for strength. Until that day, I will strive to find some faith but enjoy my life simultaneously. I do hope that those who were fortunate enough to live after the carnage, that they find salvation in this lifetime and a way to move on, having lost a loved one or many...
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2 comments:
See what I started...*sigh*
12 Comments
livinghigh said...
Is it about faith in the end, zohare? I don't think so. Forget your personal belief in God for a second, dude. It's not about God here. It's about people. I think it's wrong to think of this as a kind of retribution, as a kind of fury unleashed by God - the so-called repository of peoples' faith. It's not about finding someone or something to blame now, any more. It's about survival, and helping people get through. In the endm, yea, maybe it IS about faith - but a different kind.
28/12/04 09:29
Murli Zee said...
What matters to me is not the loss that people died, but the irony that they could have been saved, many can still be saved... Sooner or later, we have to do our part, and that is the best way to deal with loss, temporary or permanent.
28/12/04 09:50
Zohare said...
I think I wasn't clear on what i was getting at aboutt he faith aspect. I did not say that it was some grand plan by God to wipe out masses of people, I was just saying that for those that God does matter and those who rely on God for their daily being, he was not there for them not that he caused it but he was not there to protect them. People pray for guidance and protection from God, but at a time when they needed him it didn't seem like he was there.
Other than that you guys are absolutley right, i mean shit, humanity is at stake here and there are so many who can potentially be saved. It is just sad...that's all.
28/12/04 14:39
Anonymous said...
there's no time like a disaster to understand the meaning of faith, yo. This is not a time to lose it. It's not a time to stop praying. Why did it happen? because it was part of the qadr of Allah swt. whether you consider it a trial, a test, a punishment, a display of power.. it wasn't a mistake. no one dies in vain through the eyes of a faithful person. we all have a destiny. Where is God now? here like always. offering us an opportunity to be selfless, to shower our brothers and sisters with help, since we are so fortunate to be unhurt. Philosophers for millenia have wondered why an all-powerful deity allows the existence of suffering. Just consider it a test and do whatever you are capable of to assuage it. And pray out of thankfulness that you've got your legs, your siblings, your parents, whatever is left.. pray for mercy and patience for us all.
30/12/04 22:28
Anonymous said...
THE DEITY OF THE BILLIONS WHO SURVIVED: An answer to Why
Exodus 33:19, 19 And He (Jehovah) said (to Moses), "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion."
As Job said in the midst of his "tragedy", "The Lord has given, and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord."
A proper theology (understanding of God) begins with a proper anthropology (understanding of man). "The soul that sins shall die." None but sinners perished. They got what they deserved. Everyday that they lived, they were shown mercy. I don't have a right to live in your house, and guilty sinners don't have a right to live on God's earth.
I am sure that this sounds harsh, but it is the biblical fact about man. We are a condemned race of dreamers dreaming optimistically about our nature and our consequent deeds. Our goodness is merely accidental, not natural, that is, it is the restrain of God that keeps everyone of us from doing what we would instantly do if not restrained. This restraint is imperceptable, and when it could be seen it is perceived as our "native good nature" or virtue. If you do not murder, it is because God has caused you to detest it, and yet you take the credit for it.
God's commentary on man is found in Rom 3:10-12,
"10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; 11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; 12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
"None... not even one... none... none... all... useless...none who does good, not even one."
This is antithetical to the almost universal view of man by man, "Most are righteous... most do good, and those who don't... there is almost none." This is our problem. Man is optimistic about man. God is not.
The religions of the world provide an imaginary ladder to heaven on which man is his imagined ability can climb to heaven if he just will decide to. But what man needs is an ambulance to heaven because he cannot climb, actually, he WILL not climb if there was one.
Religion is a crutch, they say. But what the man described by God in Romans needs is a stretcher, not a crutch. A crutch is optimistic: one good leg and a will do to what is right (i.e., right as defined by the man with the crutch).
So 117,000+ people have died (current figure) because they deserve to die, not to live, says God.
"21,900 people believed to be dead from tsunami damage. I want to know, where is God now." Answer:
Psalm 115:1-8, "Not to us, O LORD, not to us, But to Your name give glory Because of Your lovingkindness, because of Your truth. 2 Why should the nations say,
"Where, now, is their God?" 3 But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases. 4 Their idols are silver and gold, The work of man's hands. 5 They have mouths, but they cannot speak; They have eyes, but they cannot see; 6 They have ears, but they cannot hear; They have noses, but they cannot smell; 7 They have hands, but they cannot feel; They have feet, but they cannot walk; They cannot make a sound with their throat. 8 Those who make them will become like them,
Everyone who trusts in them."
The Psalms answers the question, "But our God is in the heavens, and He does whatever He pleases." God was pleased on Sunday 12/26/04 to spare billions of guilty sinners who were not effected by the tsunami, and the same and Only God was pleased to call the souls that He made back to Himself. "All souls are mine," says Jehovah, and soul that sins shall die.
The question should be, "Where were the idols that most of those who perished trusted in?" Imaginary gods can only give imaginary help. "Having ears but they cannot hear" the cry of the perishing.
Faith make nothing real. Faith, rather, is trusting that which is real, whether any believe it or not.
So some may ask, "Is God responsible for the deaths of 117,000 people? Yes, but there were no innocent people among them. They may have perfectly lived up the the standard of their own righteousness, but none lived up to God's standard of righteousness. There was no injustice done. Man got what man deserves.
You wrote, "I feel more comfortable holding myself responsible for things I do, whether right or wrong." Right or wrong according to who?
In Noah's flood, only eight survived and the rest of all mankind perished. None of the eight survivors got what they deserved. They all received mercy. All who perished got justice, that is, they only got what they deserved.
"I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion."
Our controversy is with God Himself. We disagree with His anthropology. And those who don't like God's view of man make a new antropology and call it a religion. Anyone who has a problem with this needs to take it up with the God who spins the earth that they are sitting on... the God who spared the billions on 12/26/04.
The only way death and hell are anyway tolerable as ideas is to agree with God about man. The are more "understandable" as they are held up against the picture of man the God has drawn for us in the Bible. If there are any innocent people who perished on Sunday, then I have a problem with God. No innocent person perished in the tsunami. None.
And those who find it easier to think evil of God rather than of man retort, "So God is cruel and loves to punish guilty sinners?" NO, NEVER!!! Rather, He cries from heaven to guilty man saying, Ezekiel 18:32, "For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."
He was in the heavens doing what He pleased when He sent a tsunami, but He has no pleasure in the act of judgment itself nor in the death and sufferings even of guilty sinners. Isaiah 30:18, "Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you, And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you. For the LORD is a God of justice; How blessed are all those who long for Him."
None get to heaven by their own good-doing. "There is none who do good, not even one." All who get to heaven get there by Christ's good-doing and sacrificial dying. It is an alien righteousness that saves us. There are no ladders to heaven, but there is a chariot: the grace of God toward guilty sinners. The foundation of grace is justice. Sin has been punished, so God can freely show "mercy to whomever He will show mercy."
Micah 7:18-19, "Who is a God like You, who pardons iniquity And passes over the rebellious act of the remnant of His possession? He does not retain His anger forever, Because He delights in unchanging love. 19 He will again have compassion on us; He will tread our iniquities under foot. Yes, You will cast all their sins Into the depths of the sea."
Why didn't the whole world perish? "Because He delights in mercy (unchanging love)." How can a just God and a holy God "passover rebellious acts"? Because the rebellious acts of "the remnant of His people" has been thoroughly punish on Christ their Substitute. How are they saved? By doing? No, by believing God, that He has done for them what He has said that He has done for them. Believing this doesn't make it true, it just makes it effectual for those who believe it. Do you believe? Rather, WILL you believe, and forsake your imaginary ladder to heaven? He who "delights in mercy" "longs to be gracious" to you and to all.
31/12/04 05:08
Anonymous said...
A philosophical reality must be faced when confronted with suffering: WE WILL ALL DIE (physically). Some violently, some peacefully. "It is appointed unto man once to die, and after that, the judgement".
The suffering of millions is a daily occurrence in this broken world, thrust to center-stage by this type of tragedy, and while we identify with the grief and sorrow of it's victims, it must lead us to a greater awareness of the ultimate reality: WE WILL ALL LIVE (spiritually).
Death is not termination. It is transition, a passing. We simply need a guide to that passage. Only ONE MAN has ever been "there and back". Whatever your past impressions of Jesus Christ, if you are truly seeking reality about the ultimate questions of life, you must consider the message he gave, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" "I have come to give them eternal life, and no one can snatch them from my hand" "For God loved people of the world so much, that he gave His one and only Son, so that anyone who believes in Him would not die, but would have eternal life".
There's more to life than dying. Seek the Creator and you conquer death. He loves you and waits for you.
www.needhim.com
1-888-NEED HIM
31/12/04 07:01
Anonymous said...
To the most recent poster, with fundamentalist Christian views:
A few things strike me about your post. I also believe in God, but do not believe that God intervenes in the physical world. The causes of the tsunami are to be found in science, through an understanding of movements of tectonic plates. The tsunami can only be viewed by sane people (religious people including myself putting aside our ideology) as an unforeseeable calamity, the surviving victims of which need our assistance urgently. St Paul said 'love thy neighbour', not 'judge thy neighbour'.
To posit a God sweeping away over a hundred thousand people because He has decided that as sinners their time was up, is to posit ourselves at His right shoulder, sharing an ability to judge mankind. We don't occupy that position, but are on the ground having to make our way, make our homes and our lives and loves, unable to predict the future, at the mercy of any harm experienced by our physical bodies, just as the people who were victims of the tsunami are and were; if you had been present there no doubt the reality of this would have been forcefully brought home to you.
There have been many natural disasters and will be many more; the human lessons to be learned from them, for me, have to do with cooperation between people, and putting our own destruction of each other (so often carried out under the banners of ideologies) in context, making us hopefully less bloodthirsty, less divisive, more together.
I shared some of the feelings of Zohare, as a believer, struggling to reconcile the awesome random destructive power that was wreaked by the tsunami, with as he described in different words, a daily sustaining faith which people draw upon, turning to it for guidance, protection, enlightenment, patiently developing their lives, and their hopes; for it all to be washed away for so many people.
My tentative conclusion is that events such as this underline the delineation, for me, between a spiritual God, and the spiritual aspect and life of man (the life of our soul), and the temporal physical life we lead on Earth. While we are here, we are our bodies, and our souls. Our bodies are subject to all kinds of hurt and danger; we need to take advantage of our opportunity to develop and grow, be in touch with our souls. Muslims believe that the universe is a great puzzle in the facets of which to read the intentions of its Creator; each new facet is a new thing to learn from. Perhaps the underlining of the capriciousness of the physical environment (to be contrasted with the order, love, calmness of the spiritual realm) is the lesson here.
Meanwhile, as I write, the situation on the ground in the twelve countries, is desperate in many cases; writing on internet forums achieves nothing; perhaps the only thing we can do is donate money; I urge us all to do that.
31/12/04 20:59
aztec said...
I found this blog by accident and began reading the comments from before the disaster and then after. I have been in deep thought over a dilemma > What about the countless millions being killed in war? What about the millions that might die from natural disasters caused by global warming? What about the millions currently dying from AIDS? These events could be lessened or prevented if each of us takes some action - together. The future is filled with global catastrophe waiting to happen. This current situation was certainly preventable if people worked together. After reading countless articles on how warnings "could have been" given, I am convinced that a more global approach could have been utilized. All of the divisive issues that people surround themselves with need to be put aside if we really truly care about humankind. Yes, I know I sound naive and silly. However, as we witness how people are all coming together during this current period, I can't help but wonder, could we not have come together before? How about those scientist who were warning of just such a disaster? Did anyone care enough to listen to them before this happened? And what am I doing about any of it? Well, I teach 6th grade, opening young minds to think globally and to think beyond the divisive issues of race and social status. I am giving what money I can. In addition I am thinking of the future. How can the world be made a safer, healthier place for all people? How can I make an impact that will matter the most? I can give money yes, I can read and gather knowledge to teach my students, I can teach my own children so that they can impact the future. I can make a statement online to people outside my small world here and say, if we truly care what happens to others we need to set aside all boundaries, all ideologies, all religions, all the "isms" which hold us apart and come together as human beings on this small precious planet. Perhaps if we change our world view we will all act differently in the future.
What is The Plan? Does anyone have suggestions?
1/1/05 02:11
Anonymous said...
Thank you for your kind reply. A few more thoughts:
CORRECTION: Someone wrote, "St Paul said 'love thy neighbour', not 'judge thy neighbour.'" It was Jesus who said "Love your neighbor," not Paul." He was quoting what Jehovah said to Moses in Leviticus 19:18, "You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD."
But Paul said in 1 Corinthians that "he who is spiritual judges all things." What Jesus said about judging other is found in Matthew 7:1-6,
"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 "Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. 6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
This is warning about judging hypocritically, not a prohibition against making judgments. Don't be hypocritical. That is the warning. If you have a log of sin in your eye, don't worry about the speck of sin in your brother's eye. Obviously, the log ought to be removed before the speck. The hypocrite ignores his great sin and is upset about his brother's tiny sin. This is hypocrisy, and this is the warning that Jesus gives.
How do I know that it is not also a prohibition? Because of verse 6 which was said with the same breath out of the same mouth as the warning:
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
Now, unless Jesus was talking about real pigs and real dogs, then he was talking about people. And this assessing of people as swine or dogs requires making a judgment about them. That is, if I am to comply with this mandate of Christ and not give what is holy to dogs, then I must make assessments about people. These "judgments" are based on that which is observable because men cannot read minds or motives of other men. Per Hebrews 4, only God is Discerner of the "thoughts and intentions of the heart." This is not my or any human's domain. I may ask about your motives, but I don't have the skillset to discern your motives and thoughts.
So per Jesus, you ARE to "judge thy neighbor" by assessing what is observable.
SOMEONE SAID: I also believe in God, but do not believe that God intervenes in the physical world. The causes of the tsunami are to be found in science, through an understanding of movements of tectonic plates.
Well, mother nature has a Father. Matter and the law of the physics of this present universe do not exist outside of God. All matter and the physics of this present reality are designed and maintained by mother nature's Father: God. The thought of a "mother nature" is acutally a blasphemy. It denies the sovereignty of God. Jesus said, "Not a sparrow falls to the ground without your Father." And then He asked, "Are not you more important than the sparrows?" All sparrows die at God's hand. So do all men. "Are not you more important than the sparrows?" Here Jesus argues from the lesser to the greater, that is, from sparrows to men. He is saying that a sparrow's death is intimately known by God (who caused it), so how much more are the trials and death of men!
This and many other biblical proof texts could be given to prove the sovereignty of God over all events of human history. The God of Creation is also the God of Providence. GOD MOVED THE TECTONIC PLATES, and God determined who would be on the beach and who would be safe on the third floor of the hotels. God sent the tsunami to take the lives of some and to warn all who were spared.
SOMEONE SAID: The tsunami can only be viewed by sane people (religious people including myself putting aside our ideology) as an unforeseeable calamity, the surviving victims of which need our assistance urgently.
Well, I am sure that I am "sane." My theology is not an "ideology." And I agree while weeping, "the surviving victims need... our assistance urgently." I will do what I can.
SOMEONE SAID: "To posit a God sweeping away over a hundred thousand people because He has decided that as sinners their time was up, is to posit ourselves at His right shoulder, sharing an ability to judge mankind. We don't occupy that position, but are on the ground having to make our way..."
Surely it is God's prerogative to take the life He has made. He doesn't owe you or me anything. We think of God sometimes as if He were our servant, when the opposite is the truth. We are His creatures. We don't like that. We want a god like the genie in the bottle... a convenient god who serves our ends. But the true God is in the heavens and does whatever HE pleases. He is infinitely good but also holy and just. His goodness will not permit Him to be cruel. His holiness will not permit Him to sin or to be unfair. God has no judge. God answers to no court but that of His own character.
If what I have written sounds arrogant, as if I am usurping the place of God, it is because you don't believe the Bible to be God's word. I am only repeating His words. There was a flood, even scientists agree with that. The Bible gives us the account and the reason for it:
Genesis 6:5-8, Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
The account: "I will blot out man..." He said, "I will blot out," and He did so with a flood. God was the First Cause, and the flood was the second. God destroyed the antideluvians by the agency of a flood. This was in effect global genecide executed by God by means of a flood. Was the tsunami any different? God was the First Cause, and the magma/tectonic plates/tsunami was (were) the second.
The reason: "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth..." I am grateful for the disclosure. We don't have to speculate about it. Moral decadence was the criteria upon which God acted. The moral decadence was defined by God not man. Those who perished in the flood were sinners according to God's standard not man's standard. It doesn't matter what you call sin. It matters what God calls sin, because when He arises to punish it, where can you hide from an infinite God?
My religion is the Bible. What God has said, I believe. Somethings make me rejoice, and some of those revealed things make me tremble. What I have written I can prove to be biblical. God, not I, said through David (quoted by Paul in Romans 3), "There is none righteous, no not one." It was God who said to Ezekiel, (Ezekiel 18:4) "Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die." I did not say these things. I just believe them and have repeated them in regard to the recent tsunami. I am not God. I am a simple believer in Him. I believe what He says.
The amazing irony of all this is that there are most likely people fornicating in Phuket tonight during the scaled down New Years festivities (from what I saw on CNN). And certainly adulteries are being committed (if not with the body, surely in the heart) while the stench of rotting flesh is in the air. We have heared the reports of looters stealing their grieving neighbor's property while they are out looking for their dead family members. What can you say of this? This is, in effect, sinners shaking their puny little fists at an angry God while saying I will not repent! Never! Can you imagine no repentance for their sins, not even in the aftermath of such an awful display of God's displeasure. As Abraham said on the eve of the just destruction of Sodom, "Surely the Judge of all the earth will do right!" And God did right. He rescued righteous Lot and then destroy Sodom and all the cities of the Valley. We don't have to worry about God doing the right thing. The mystery is, why won't man do the right thing?
Isaiah 26:9-10, "At night my soul longs for You, Indeed, my spirit within me seeks You diligently; For when the earth experiences Your judgments The inhabitants of the world learn righteousness. 10 Though the wicked is shown favor, He does not learn righteousness; He deals unjustly in the land of uprightness, And does not perceive the majesty of the LORD."
This was spoken by Isaiah at a time of national disaster... at a time of the impending judgment of God on a people for their sustained and unrepented of sins. And what was Isaiah doing? Cursing at God? Persisting in a way of sin? Blaming God for all the problems? No, rather he was longing after the God who was in fact the Destroyer, "At night my soul longs for You, Indeed, my spirit within me seeks You diligently."
The awful judgment of 12/26/04 is intended to shake all the world free from their sins. Grief for the sins of all mankind, and especially grief for and repentance from our own particular sins ought to be the immediate response. Sympathy for all the suffering ones is the easy part. Who hasn't wept upon consideration of the devastation? But how many weepers also now determine to live an die for the honor of the God whom we all have offended? This wish for God's honor to be restore in the minds of mankind ought to drive all of our doing to relieve whatever suffering that we can. God is the Great Victim here. God ought to be honored more than man. Do you agree? Who feels any sympathy for God upon the consideration of all of the blasphemies and violence done against Him?
My hope is what Isaiah wished for Judah, that from this awful event the "inhabitants of the earth may learn righteousness," and all may "perceive the majesty of the Lord."
1/1/05 02:41
ragamuffin said...
Hi, I'm not here to judge. Just wanna tell you that I understand your doubts and I don't blame you for them. I've also written about the tragedy from a spiritual point of view as I struggle to cope with my own doubts too. http://www.theragamuffinkid.blogspot.com/
4/1/05 13:06
Prakriti said...
Aw please please please please!
What the heck are we talking about in here? What?
Please keep religion out of this! There is too much crap in there to be sorted out like this. One needs to be logical, unemotional and at a better time than now to ask where is god and just how much crap have we been fed over the ages.
Not now.
Please keep it out of here, now.
4/1/05 17:10
Anonymous said...
Well, the title of this blog encourages thoughts and comments about Deity and His relation to the tsunami. So, we have been obliged by the owner and originator here to think out loud, as I have done.
It is very convenient for the immoral to apply the ying and the yang concept exclusively outside of the realm of moral world, i.e., moral evil and moral recompense. It is handy to think like a chemist of protons & electrons, i.e., positives and negatives only existing in the physical world, but not in the immaterial world.
Luke Skywalker's god, the force, is a farce. For the duped, "The farce is with you." Many dream of an infinite power which has no sense of ethics... a powerful god, but not a holy and righteous god and thus does not punish what He calls sin... a god who can make a universe but does not exercise his power to make a better world by judging and punishing evil or rewarding righteousness. The farce doesn't care if you curse, lust, or murder, but per George Lucas if you have midichlorians in your blood, you can employ the farce for your own purposes. Hmmmm! A handy god indeed! Myriads of such myths exist on the planet. There is no such being. It is only a god made in the image of fallen man. God's mercy and patience are usually misinterpreted as indifference to sin. This is a myth.
We need to be concerned for the survival of all mankind, not just those in South East Asia. If we continue to do what enrages the Almighty, then our sympathies and sacrifices to help the survivors of the recent tsunami are like just bailing water out of a sinking ship. As Mr. Spock said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few," and the whole planet is at risk by reason of its impudent denial of the Only Sovereign God as a Judge and Punisher of evil. As Habakkuk said of this God,
Habakkuk 1:12-13, "Are You not from everlasting, O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die. You, O LORD, have appointed them to judge (a tsunami in this case); And You, O Rock, have established them (it) to correct. 13 Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You can not look on wickedness with favor..." i.e., God had appointed the Assyrians to punish sinful Judah. God certainly does not "look on (even Judah's) wickedness with favor." He will punish it in due time.
If our sympanthy is sincere, we ought to be more concerned for the fate of the billions that survived than for the fate of the displaced millions, as cold as that sounds, right? If your are concerned for the hundreds of thousands you ought to concerned for the billions, right? This is sound logic. So, surely we ought to do what we can to help those who need our help now, but we ought also consider the lessons being taught to us by this "disaster."
What are some of the lessons? I am sure that there are many. Let me suggest a few:
1) God hates prostitution. I read that there are 2,800,000 prostitutes in Thailand. Is this true? Do a Google search entering "Phuket prostitution" and behold the wickedness that it unveils! I went to the websites of companies who organized "Sex Tours" to Phuket, Columbo, and other hotspots in that region. I read that this has been going on for many years. I wonder if the Hard Rock Cafe in Phuket is still standing offering its menu of strange flesh to perverts? Does God care about these vile activities? Is He unable or unwilling to act against them? Is there any ying of judgment for this yang of wickedness? Indeed there is! His name is Jehovah!
2) God is the defender of the weak: children, orphans, widows, etc. An Australian owner of a brothel in Phuket said, "I love Thailand. It is one of the few places in the world where you can own a girl like you own a dog." Is this true? Such people should not be allowed to live. Do you believe slavery should be permitted? ...sex slavery? I hope not! God called such people, "abusers of mankind" in the Bible. These are human Satans trafficing their perverted products of young girls and boys to satisfy to twisted passion of men. Are you one of these men? Have you enjoyed these "pleasures?" God knows! Have any of you lusted after the Asian beauties on web... photos from Phuket and Columbo? Beware of the God who is not indifferent to such things! He is the God sends tsunamis to punish sinners! Many of those pitiful faces drowning in videos on the news that we all saw had come seeking the pleasure of youngs girls who had been sucked into the evil trade of prostitution by the money of Americans and Europeans and Arabs and others (...and their day is coming, too, unless they repent). God has spoken. Do you hear Him? Don't scoff. If you do these things, you will die forever. To all of us who remain, God speaks: "Do not permit these things to exist!" Yes, cash out your 401k and send it to relieve the afflicted! Yes, sell your motorcycle, your second home, one of your cars and send the money to Phuket to feed the orphans, but primarily war against that which God hates and punishes. The tectonic plates are rumbling again. They are His servants. We are not safe where sin is allowed free reign. As Solomon said, "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." Are you wise? Do you fear God, or mock Him?
Surely some rightly may ask, "But what about those who did not like or participate in such evil practices but who also were washed away?" A word from God: "Don't vacation in Sodom!" All of us have a responsibility to war against evil. Any man's sin is the danger of all. And wherever it is permitted openly is not a safe place to live or visit. And a word for those who live around it: "Move away from here. You are in danger. God is not indifferent to such evil."
But what about those too poor to move, or didn't even know about such things? God has revealed His sovereignty to us in His word, "It is appointed for man to die once, and after this comes judgment," Hebrews 9:27. 12/26/04 was God's appointment for nearly 150,000 people. He exercised His prerogative as God. He did so also in my family recently: God appointed the death of my father last year (2004). Doctors and medicine could not reschedule his appointment with death. God appointed that one of my children die before he was one year old. No one this earth could reschedule God's appointment for him. All men have a date on a calendar in heaven. Some die of "natural causes," some are murdered, some die in accidents, and some die in tsunamis. But all die at the hand of the God, the First Cause, who created them, and who at a time that He appoints, calls their souls back to Himself. We don't like this vulnerability, but it is the prerogative of the Only God who made us. So for those who died on 12/26/04 who were of among the exceedingly wicked type, this was simply the appointed day for them as well. We must not despise Him for being God. He know perfectly why He took some and left others. We are left only to know that He is not indifferent to the evils among us.
Much blame for the disaster, at least in Thailand, is on the Thai government who though they officially have banned prostitution, apparently did little to eradicate it. They did not protect their people from an outbreak of God's just wrath. This is every government's God-appointed task. How hard is it to spot a brothel? ...scantilly dressed temptresses in a showcase window? Who didn't know that these things were going on in Phuket and other places in SE Asia? Why isn't is stopped? It thrive where there is no fear of God. It lives where the farce lives: a god who does not intervene in human history. And such evils exist because they are a part of the economy of Phuket and of Thailand and other places, that is why! Money is chosen over morality, while the thought of a punishing God is mocked or denied. Well, I hope it is not mocked now. How many people on the Monday after scoffed in Phuket when they heard the rumors of a second tsunami? But before the tsunami, as the heathen so many times are quoted in the Psalms, when things were going well for them, when they were sinning openly and boldy, they scoffed saying, "God will not do evil, nor will He do good," i.e., God doesn't reward righteousness or punish sinfulness ("the force" is an old fable). They mock saying, "It doesn't matter, you foolish Christian, because God doesn't see and doesn't care!" And yet, when God does "evil" by means of "natural disasters," these same people say, "It is a change in the mood of mother nature." No, it is an act of an angry God. There is no "mother nature." These providences are His reply to provocations, and serve as warnings from heaven to all the survivors, reminding us that as Paul said to the sensual Corinthians who were world renowned for the permiscuous sins, "Do not be deceived. God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows, that will he also reap." Friends, do not be deceived.
3) Lesson 3, there are more important things to live for than buying another car and a bigger house or getting a famous name for yourself. I think most of us have heard this lesson and are responding. I am glad to see the benevolence flowing into SE Asia. May such sympathy charactarize all of us for the rest of our days. I just wish the movie stars who give the million dollar donations would do so anonymously. Their generosity stinks of pride. Jesus said, "When you give alms, do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing." I.e., don't broadcast your virtuous acts, else they are not virutous at all, but simply pedistals for your pride. "Otherwise," as Jesus said, "you have received your reward in full." That is, you wished to be known as a great giver so as to exalted in the eyes of men... your wish is granted: your generosity serves your ego. Jesus said of such givers, "You have your reward in full."
Please understand that I do not wish to provoke anyone's anger, just your thinking. Surely, that seems to be the point of this blog per the title and the availability to comment. These are my thoughts. They are biblical thoughts. To shut down my arguments you just have to disprove the Inspiration of the Bible. But if it is a word from the Living God as I believe, then take to heart what I have written.
May all of this not prove to be as was written in Psalm 120:5-7, Woe is me, for I sojourn in Meshech, For I dwell among the tents of Kedar! 6 Too long has my soul had its dwelling With those who hate peace. 7 I am for peace, but when I speak, They are for war."
If I keep my "fundamentalist Christian" ideas to myself then there is peace. I am permitted to coexist on the planet with those who are shouting their antithetical, atheistical ideas from the rooftops. But if I speak, "they are for war." If I keep my thoughts to myself then my opponents show the great latitude of their love for all mankind and I am allowed to be a Christian if I wish to. But if I speak, as I have been commanded by Christ to speak, in contrast to their unfounded "ideologies" and underlying philosophies, if I challenge their view of life and God, then all hell breaks loose upon me. May it not be so. Please consider what I have said. May the God of peace be with you all!
5/1/05 06:24
since i am obviously 4 years late in commenting to your post, i wont address it much on the religious/spiritual front but yes we tend to have our bouts of outrage when something major happens.
we unfortunately question our faith a lot and regret it when later an event occurs that restores it back.
I guess we can just say 'Sorry Allahmian but i'm sure u understand me'
:)
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